June 7, 2021

Podcasting Tips, The Virtual CMO Podcast
The Virtual CMO Podcast

The Virtual CMO Podcast

Season 5, Episode 9

Hosted By: Eric Dickmann
With Guest: Graham Brown

Our Featured Guest

Graham Brown

Founder - Pikkal & Co

Graham Brown is an entrepreneur, author and storyteller, podcast host, and founder of the award-winning podcast agency- Pikkal & Co.


He is a published author on the subject of The Digital Transformation of Communication, works including "The Human Communication Playbook", “The Mobile Youth: Voices of the Connected Generation” – documenting the rise of mobile culture in the early 2000s in Japan, China, Africa and India and “Brand Love – How to Build a Brand Worth Talking About”. Brown also hosts Podcast Maps, The Be More Human Podcast, The XL Podcast, and Asia Tech Podcast. He has published over 1,000 podcast episodes. 

Graham Brown's work has been featured in the Financial Times, The Wall Street Journal, and has helped shaped the communications strategy of clients- McKinsey, Leap by McKinsey, AirAsia, Xero, The Singapore Institute of Management, Vodafone, Nokia, UNICEF, MTV, The European Commission, Disney, and Monster Energy Drinks.


What's Hot?

"Turn your idea into  a n Award-Winning Podcast."

Pikkal & Co is an Award-Winning Full Service Podcast Agency founded by Graham Brown. They specialize in performance communications- which they believe delivers measurable results. Pikkal & Co has podcast production partner studios in Atlanta, Bangalore, Barcelona, Brisbane, Dubai, Dublin, Helsinki, London, Manchester, Manila, Mumbai, New Delhi, New York, Singapore, Stockholm, Sydney, and Toronto. With their elite podcast services and efficient project management, Graham and his team has produced over 1,000 podcast shows and around 20,000 episodes for their global clients. 

Pikkal & Co is trusted by the world's biggest companies and institutions - McKinsey & Company, Air Asia, National University of Singapore (NUS), Facebook Workplace, IBM, Cloudflare, National Trades Union Congress (NTUC), and Horizon Quantum Computing.

Pikkal & Co

Graham Brown

Even small changes can make a big difference. This can get you into the top 10 of a category with just consistent focus. You don't need celebrities. You just need to understand how Spotify and Apple are ranking their charts."

What We Discussed with Graham

On this episode, host Eric Dickmann interviews Graham Brown about podcasting as a marketing channel for your business. Here are some highlights of our conversation:

  • [00:04:39] Apple and Spotify- the major podcast platforms - Apple Podcasts has unique features and great tools to use, but until just recently, they haven't show much investment in their platform. According to Graham, only now do we see the two biggest players, Apple and Spotify, investing in tools to help creators monetize their podcasts.
  • [00:06:18] Will Apple reconsider putting podcasts back in their Music app? - Spotify may be ranked first in music subscriptions, but they are losing much money. Bringing music and podcasts together helps them grow their subscriber base. On the other hand, Apple is making money in many other ways. Graham shares he's not be sure of Apple's end game, but it seems that they're less inclined to put podcasts back into Music because they don't have to.
  • [00:07:56] What will be the future of apps like Clubhouse? - People want to connect and build relationships with groups of similar interests, hence the rise of platforms such as Clubhouse. The reason why Clubhouse emerged so quickly is because they have a unique way of bringing people together. There is a real push with apps and technologies to find new ways to connect people to their interest groups. What audio really does more is it connects us in an authentic way. 
  • [00:16:37] Making your podcast discoverable - The struggle that many podcasters face is visibility. Brown explains that discoverability should be businesses' top priority when starting a podcast, followed by using the relevant keywords in SEO content that will help get more traction and attention. 
  • [00:24:49] The large podcast market - It may seem discouraging  to start your own show because of the hundreds of podcasts already in existence. There may be a long list of existing podcasts, but many of these shows are abandoned and inactive. This is because some podcasters give up on their show and simply stop creating content. The funny thing is despite their inactivity, they can still rank highly compared to the active ones because they were able to use the right set of keywords. Sometimes, it could take a podcast 2 to 3 years before it receives the attention it deserves, but if podcasters learn to understand what the algorithms are looking for and how to play the game, they can move content up the rankings.
  • [00:28:41] Monetization in podcasting - Graham Brown mentions that there two ways to monetize podcasts. The first is creating an asset that can be monetized and sold to the audience, and the second is soft-selling themselves and their services in their episodes.
  • [00:36:12] The value of guesting in podcasts - The key part in podcasting is agile storytelling. Brown believes that there is no better way to grow an audience than to guest in other podcasts, see how they do things, and apply what works to a podcaster's own show. Participating in a podcast gives  podcasters a chance to market themselves, advertise their services and provide value to a new market.  
  • [00:39:56] Starting your podcast - It may be nerve-racking to start a new podcast and learn to master a new medium. It may take time before hosts get comfortable with the flow and how to best interact with the podcast's different guests. Just like learning a new language or instrument, it takes time to get the hang of the craft. As the saying goes, practice makes perfect.

Resources Mentioned

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Eric Dickmann

About the author

Eric Dickmann is the Founder / CMO of The Five Echelon Group, host of the weekly podcast "The Virtual CMO" and YouTube series "Work-Life" and a fractional CMO for a variety of small and midsize companies. An executive leader with over 30 years of experience in marketing, product development, and digital transformation, he has worked with large, global companies and small startups to develop and execute marketing strategies to bring innovative products to the market.